1 Tim. 2: 9-12 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
The reason for this was verse 13: For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
So says Paul, who taught the gentiles and he got a lot of harlots that were ‘priestess’ in the other temples, their job was to service the worshipers. He needed to teach them to be more like good Jewish women that were brought up in cultural ways.
Likewise in 1 Cor. 14:34-35.
Commentaries say:
The context requires that we understand these directions as to women, in relation to their deportment in public worship, though the rules will hold good on other occasions also.
The Jewish matrons were accustomed to cry to the bride: "There is no need of paint, no need of antimony, no need of braided hair; she herself is most beautiful." The eastern women use a preparation of antimony, which they apply both to the eyes and eyelids, and by which the eye itself acquires a wonderful luster.
In modest apparel - "in seemly appearance". The adjective means properly, orderly, well-mannered, flattering; the noun in secular writings means conduct, bearing. But here "apparel." Women are apt to love fine dress; and at Ephesus the riches of some (1 Tim. 6:17) would lead them to dress luxuriously. The Greek in Titus 2:3 is a more general term meaning "manner."
Which, in Paul's sense, is the virtue which governs our whole life according to true wisdom. Not with curled hair, not with gold - Worn by way of ornament. Not with pearls - Jewels of any kind: a part is put for the whole. Not with costly raiment - These four are expressly forbidden by name to all women (here is no exception) professing godliness, and no art of man can reconcile with the Christian profession the willful violation of an express command.
1. Those that profess godliness should, in their dress, as well as other things, act as becomes their profession; instead of laying out their money on fine clothes, they must lay it out in works of piety and charity, which are properly called good works.
2. Women must learn the principles of their religion, learn Messiah, learn the Scriptures; they must not think that their sex excuses them from that learning which is necessary to salvation.
3. They must be silent, submissive, and subject, and not usurp authority.
Shamefacedness - its true origin, "shamefastness" (that which is made fast by an honorable shame); as "steadfastness".
Sobriety - "sober-mindedness": the well-balanced state of mind arising from habitual self-restraint.
With - Greek, "in."
Braided hair - literally, "plaits," that is, plaited hair: probably with the "gold and pearls" intertwined (1 Pet. 3:3). Such gaud is characteristic of the spiritual harlot (Rev. 17:4
With good works - The Greek preposition is not the same as in 1 Tim. 2:9; "by means of," or "through good works." Their adorning is to be effected by means of good works: not that they are to be clothed in, or with, them (Eph. 2:10). Works, not words in public, is their province (1 Titus 2:8, 11, 12; 1 Pet. 3:1). Works are often mentioned in the Epistles in order to oppose the loose living, combined with the loose doctrine, of the false teachers. The discharge of everyday duties is honored with the description, "good works." Good works are the only ornaments with which women professing Christianity should seek to be adorned.
Learn - not "teach" (1 Cor. 14:34 - 35). She should not even put questions in the public assembly.
With all subjection - not "usurping authority". She might teach, but not in public (Act 18:26). Noticed he was corrected by a woman. Paul probably wrote this Epistle from Corinth, where the precept (1 Cor. 14:34) was in force.
Usurp authority - "to hold it over the man", literally, "to be a dictator."
For - reason of the precept; the original order of creation.
Adam . . . first - before Eve, who was created for him (1 Cor. 11:8-9), woman was originally the inferior. Eve did not deceive Adam, but influenced him. "Thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife," Gen. 3:17. The preceding verse showed why a woman should not "usurp authority over the man." this shows why she ought not "to teach." She is more easily deceived, and more easily deceives. The woman being deceived transgressed - "The serpent deceived" her, Gen. 3:13, and she transgressed. And man is easily influenced by a pretty face – G-d told Adam the rule of what to eat and not to eat directly, Adam was to tell his wife. Question who was more at fault? The one G-d told or the mate that was sharing with her husband? Who got the worse punishment? All kinds of questions can arise from this.
But I suffer not a woman to teach - They may teach in private, in their own houses and families; they are to be teachers of good things, (Titus 2:3). They are to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the L-rd; supposable up to the age of 13 for the boys, nor is the Law or doctrine of a mother to be forsaken, any more than the instruction of a father; see (Prov. 1:8) (31:1-4). Timothy, no doubt, received much advantage, from the private teachings and instructions of his mother Eunice, and grandmother Lois, even long into his adulthood; but then women are not to teach in the church; for that is an act of power and authority, and supposes the persons that teach to be of a superior degree, and in a superior office, and to have superior abilities to those who are taught by them. Which is saying G-d is a respecter of persons and he can only call men to a public office, no were in the Old Testament do you find this, it all came from Paul’s teaching. One needed to remember who Paul is teaching too, plus many of Paul’s letters are second hand letters, we can only guess what the first letter said by the way he replied. Paul calls himself an apostle, the original 12 had a problem with this and did not accept his teachings, that’s why Peter and him buck heads.
Nor to usurp authority over the man - as not in civil and political things, or in things relating to civil government; and in things domestic, or the affairs of the family; so not in things church, or what relate to the church and government of it; for one part of rule is to feed the church with knowledge and understanding; and for a woman to take upon her to do this, is to usurp an authority over the man: this therefore she ought not to do.
A woman should attempt nothing, either in public or private that belongs to man as his peculiar function. This was prohibited by the Roman laws. The church chose to follow Roman Laws instead of G-d’s Laws, weather it is the 10 written Laws or the 613 Oral Laws.
Do you think this has to do with male egos? When a man reads a book does he first check out who it was written by – I mean you could not read if by a woman for you may learn something.
Are we not all to be students and teachers of G-d’s Word – the point is to learn regardless who teaches you.
But to be in silence - to sit and hear quietly and silently, and learn, and not teach. It was lawful for men in public assemblies to ask questions, or even interrupt the speaker when there was any matter in his speech which they did not understand; but this liberty was not granted to women.
G-d has not only rendered her unfit for it, but he has subjected her, expressly, to the government of the man, it was part of the sentence, Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee, Gen. 3:16. Only in the scene of submission onto her OWN husband.
Adam was first form than Eve. And by this very act G-d designed that he should have the supremacy. G-d fitted man, by the robust construction of his body, to live a public life, to contend with difficulties, and to be capable of great exertions. The structure of woman's body plainly proves that she was never designed for those exertions required in public life. In this the chief part of the natural inferiority of woman is to be sought.
O so true, the women was made to be a help meet, not to take over as the bread winner. Wars have brought women to the forefront to step into the man’s shoes, when the men came home from the war they needed the extra income to get ahead and soon it became a way of life for now they could buy all the extra toys for the family. There became a role rehearsal also and some men wanted to be the stay at home dads. Now this changes the role of the women and the children.
But it does not change G-d’s Word that the man is the head of the house, the wife denote her subordination to him and dependence upon him and the children are subject to both. G-d is not a respecter of persons and He has gifts and callings to ALL His children, for we are all part of His body working towards His Kingdom. Did He not say in Heaven there is no male and female – we will work together as one and whom ever is best qualified for the job will get it. G-d promotes whom He promotes.
Showing posts with label 1 Timothy. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 1 Timothy. Show all posts
Women in church
The Word of G-d proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-14). In the church, G-d assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world. G-d, through the Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority over men.
Yet another frequent objection to this interpretation of women in ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. This objection fails to note some significant factors.
First, Deborah was the only female judge among 13 male judges (Jug. 4:4 – 5:15). She called herself 'mother of Israel'. She was not herself fit to command an army in person, being a woman; but she nominated one that was fit, Barak of Naphtali, who, it is probable, had already signalized himself in some rencounters with the forces of the oppressor, living near him (for Hazor and Harosheth lay within the lot of that tribe), and thereby had gained a reputation and interest among his people. Some struggles, we may suppose, that brave man had made towards the shaking off of the yoke he could do nothing without her head, nor she without his hands; but both together made a complete deliverer, and effected a complete deliverance. The greatest and best are not self-sufficient, but need one another. Deborah sat under a fig tree were people sought her out for advice, she did not sit at the gates with the elders.
Huldah was the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas and they communed with her.
Miriam's only connection to leadership was being the sister of Moses and Aaron, she lead the women in dance.
The two most prominent women in the times of the Kings were Athaliah and Jezebel—hardly examples of godly female leadership.
Most significantly, though, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue. The book of 1 Timothy and the other Pastoral Epistles present a new example for the church—the body of Messiah—and that model involves the authority structure for the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity, like G-d changed His mind on how He wanted the order of things.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Messiah. Priscilla's name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more “prominent” in ministry than her husband. However, Priscilla is nowhere described as participating in a ministry activity that is in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Priscilla and Aquila brought Apollos into their home and they both discipled him, explaining the Word of G-d to him more accurately (Acts 18:26).
In Romans 16:1, even if Phoebe is considered a “deaconess” instead of a “servant,” that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Elders/bishops/deacons are described as the “husband of one wife,” “a man whose children believe,” and “men worthy of respect.” Clearly the indication is that these qualifications refer to men. In addition, in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, masculine pronouns are used exclusively to refer to elders/bishops/deacons.
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the “reason” perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for” and gives the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived.” G-d created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. This order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church. The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men, when her husband was right beside her. This leads some to believe that women should not teach because they are more easily deceived. That concept is arguable, but if women are more easily deceived, why should they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? That is not what the text says. Women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. As a result, G-d has given men the primary teaching authority in the church.
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, and helps. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
G-d has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way G-d designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching men or having spiritual authority over them. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors/preachers. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with G-d’s plan and His gifting of them.
From Got questions.org
Yet another frequent objection to this interpretation of women in ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. This objection fails to note some significant factors.
First, Deborah was the only female judge among 13 male judges (Jug. 4:4 – 5:15). She called herself 'mother of Israel'. She was not herself fit to command an army in person, being a woman; but she nominated one that was fit, Barak of Naphtali, who, it is probable, had already signalized himself in some rencounters with the forces of the oppressor, living near him (for Hazor and Harosheth lay within the lot of that tribe), and thereby had gained a reputation and interest among his people. Some struggles, we may suppose, that brave man had made towards the shaking off of the yoke he could do nothing without her head, nor she without his hands; but both together made a complete deliverer, and effected a complete deliverance. The greatest and best are not self-sufficient, but need one another. Deborah sat under a fig tree were people sought her out for advice, she did not sit at the gates with the elders.
Huldah was the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas and they communed with her.
Miriam's only connection to leadership was being the sister of Moses and Aaron, she lead the women in dance.
The two most prominent women in the times of the Kings were Athaliah and Jezebel—hardly examples of godly female leadership.
Most significantly, though, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue. The book of 1 Timothy and the other Pastoral Epistles present a new example for the church—the body of Messiah—and that model involves the authority structure for the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity, like G-d changed His mind on how He wanted the order of things.
Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Messiah. Priscilla's name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more “prominent” in ministry than her husband. However, Priscilla is nowhere described as participating in a ministry activity that is in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Priscilla and Aquila brought Apollos into their home and they both discipled him, explaining the Word of G-d to him more accurately (Acts 18:26).
In Romans 16:1, even if Phoebe is considered a “deaconess” instead of a “servant,” that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons (1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:6-9). Elders/bishops/deacons are described as the “husband of one wife,” “a man whose children believe,” and “men worthy of respect.” Clearly the indication is that these qualifications refer to men. In addition, in 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9, masculine pronouns are used exclusively to refer to elders/bishops/deacons.
The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the “reason” perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for” and gives the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived.” G-d created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. This order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church. The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men, when her husband was right beside her. This leads some to believe that women should not teach because they are more easily deceived. That concept is arguable, but if women are more easily deceived, why should they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? That is not what the text says. Women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. As a result, G-d has given men the primary teaching authority in the church.
Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, and helps. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).
G-d has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers, or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way G-d designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching men or having spiritual authority over them. This logically would preclude women from serving as pastors/preachers. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with G-d’s plan and His gifting of them.
From Got questions.org
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